Comments on The Rebel God: What is Emergent?

"I know the truth of the Gospel because the Holy S...

2007-08-27T16:47:00.000-07:00

"I know the truth of the Gospel because the Holy Spirit acted upon me and showed me the truth"

Jim, this is still a very relational formulation. God "acted upon you" God "showed" you. Relational truth is not based on our subjective experience, nor on our subjective reason, it is based on a relational God who acts to reveal himself to us in relationship.

In that, you are dependent on God, otherwise it would be human based and thus idolatrous.

Hello, my name is Jim.

"So the way we 'know...

2007-08-27T15:13:00.000-07:00

Hello, my name is Jim.

"So the way we 'know' truth is relationally, through trust and humble dependency on God."

We know truth through the word of God.(2 TIMOTHY 3:16) That truth is not relational. In other words, the truth of the words of God are not in any way dependent upon our attitudes or perceptions of the text of the Bible. We can fail to accept the words of the Bible as the truth, but that doesn't change the condition of God's word as truth.

Another way of putting this is that the Gospel message is true not because we have faith in the content of the Gospel. It isn't true because we believe Jesus was crucified, died, was burried, and rose from the dead on the third day. If everyone in the world failed, for one reason or the other, to believe the truth of the Gospel, that wouldn't make the Gospel "not-true". The Gospel is true because Jesus really did die. He really did rise from the grave. We don't "know" that by faith, we know the Gospel is true because it contains historical facts, and those who have come to salvation directly percieve their position with God.

I know the truth of the Gospel not because I trust God and am dependent upon God, I know the truth of the Gospel because the Holy Spirit acted upon me and showed me the truth that I am a sinner saved by the grace of God and that can only be possible through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord!

http://www.soundwitness.org/evangel/

Hey David, sure I remember, "Infinite Spaces" righ...

2007-07-16T12:52:00.000-07:00

Hey David, sure I remember, "Infinite Spaces" right?

I agree with your addition, and would say that from a post modern perspective this reflects an appreciation for other worldviews and for our own connection to history.

The danger is if our consumerism gets in the way and we get caught in the "shopping cart" mentality of taking the chants from here, and the candles from there, to mold our own custom made worship without getting the deeper contexts that these traditions come from.

Of course consumerism is a problem that we as Westerners all have to deal with, not just postmoderns or Emergents.

Hey Derek,

You may remember me as the Austr...

2007-07-12T20:07:00.000-07:00

Hey Derek,

You may remember me as the Australian who got you involved in the whole CV/PSA debate on an Australian blog. Anyway, found your post on the Emerging Church pretty interesting and broadly speaking, accurate. The only thing I'd add is that Emergents like to tie together different strands from different theological strands and cultures. Being Emerging doesn't involve bypassing church history and creating something new, but rather attempts to look at the very broad body of Christ in its different manifestations.

Thanks, Derek, I will (when I get a bit more time)...

2007-07-11T19:04:00.000-07:00

Thanks, Derek, I will (when I get a bit more time).
I had lunch with Nathan today, and we talked about you. I'm having him over for dinner tomorrow. Wish I'd have done that with you while you were here.
By the way, I enjoyed reading the interchange between you and WF about Church history. I like both of your blogs, too.
Nice to re-connect via the blogoshphere.

Hey Clay,

Great to hear from you!
If you...

2007-07-11T12:15:00.000-07:00

Hey Clay,

Great to hear from you!
If you have some free ear time, there was a great series of podcasts on the emergent movement done by the folks at "Theology Unplugged". They are themselves not emergent, but did a really fair and wise job of describing it. You can download their podcasts on iTunes.

Hey, Derek. It's the Clay from your Church History...

2007-07-11T11:14:00.000-07:00

Hey, Derek. It's the Clay from your Church History class. Just found your blog. Viva sharktacos!

Thanks for the post. I haven't really paid much attention to the whole "emergent" thing. I didn't want to get caught up in what I thought was the latest fad. What you've written, however, has made me reconsider. It resonated with where I am & how I feel about many issues.
I don't plan on rushing out to buy the latest "emergent" authors, but at least I'm a bit better informed...and certainly open! Perhaps, as you mentioned, I'm one of those "emergent" Christians who doesn't even know it.
Keep up the good writing.

May God bless you!